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glo thorogood
29th September 2009, 09:26 AM
Hi all,
I'm another old lag who grew up with the original transmissions of all the Anderson shows! The 12in black and white 425 line set at Nan's was magic back then.
I fell in love at the age of eleven with Virgil Tracy (first love, sigh) and that was the end of ballet classes, I had to be home to watch Thunderbirds.
I chose Air Traffic Control as a job, met Steve (34yrs wed) and we have just retired. How's that to blame on Thunderbirds?

Silent Bob
29th September 2009, 09:59 AM
Welcome aboard Glo, i bet you could have got Fireflash down safely. :)

Derek Eaton
29th September 2009, 11:22 AM
I hope Virgil is enjoying this forum with you and wearing something appropriate - welcome to you both.

Virgil Tracy
29th September 2009, 05:17 PM
Hello and welcome
And am I as good-looking now as I was in the 60s LOL:p

Picasso61
29th September 2009, 05:31 PM
Welcome along to this great forum, glo. It sounds like you had a unique television set with 425 lines! lol!:)

TonyB
30th September 2009, 10:07 AM
Hi Glo, welcome to the forum, glad to see you here.

Richard259
1st October 2009, 07:41 AM
Welcome along to this great forum, glo. It sounds like you had a unique television set with 425 lines! lol!:)

Oh yes of course....It was 405 lines and 2 channels. On our 19" (posh) Pye set BBC was on channel 1 and ITV on 9 on the rotary dial on the side. In those days BBC was broadcast from Crystal Palace and ITV from their Croydon transmitter. Both still in existence but the old ITV one is used these days for Radio and I believe, Analogue Channel 5, whereas the old BBC mast is used for just about everything else.

Picasso61
1st October 2009, 12:58 PM
Oh yes of course....It was 405 lines and 2 channels. On our 19" (posh) Pye set BBC was on channel 1 and ITV on 9 on the rotary dial on the side. In those days BBC was broadcast from Crystal Palace and ITV from their Croydon transmitter. Both still in existence but the old ITV one is used these days for Radio and I believe, Analogue Channel 5, whereas the old BBC mast is used for just about everything else.Correct, Richard.:) We had a very similar set but BBC1 was on channel 4 (Sutton Coldfield) and channel 8 from Lichfield. We couldn't get BBC2.

Richard259
1st October 2009, 03:21 PM
Neither could we for a while and I remember getting all excited when we got our first set that could pick up BBC2, with an extra aerial.

The dial on that set, a 21" GEC, had BBC1, ITV and a UHF mark for the BBC2 broadcasts. That must have been about 1966.

God I'm boring :)

Picasso61
1st October 2009, 04:43 PM
Didn't get BBC2 till we went colour in 1972, Richard.:)

Richard259
1st October 2009, 05:36 PM
You beat us

We went colour in 1977. My mum would never have a colour set. She said it hurt her eyes!:confused: So one day dad was so fed up he went out and bought one anyway:)

She wasn't pleased to start with and virtually had the colour turned to zero for ages, but me and my brother gradually edged it up and we don't think she noticed.

How times have changed :)

roose1982
2nd October 2009, 12:03 AM
You beat us

We went colour in 1977. My mum would never have a colour set. She said it hurt her eyes!:confused: So one day dad was so fed up he went out and bought one anyway:)

She wasn't pleased to start with and virtually had the colour turned to zero for ages, but me and my brother gradually edged it up and we don't think she noticed.

How times have changed :)

I guess switching to colour is similar to us now switching to HDTV - the difference in quality when compared to standard def images is breathtaking. I'm not quite old enough to remember b/w tv.

Just purely out of curiosity, i wonder what it would be like to watch one of the Supermarionation series on an old style british b/w tv set from the 1960's. Is it possible to down-convert an episode, and do a screen grabs. It would be interesting to produce a side-by-side comparison of original b/w broadcast image, against VHS, DVD and blu-ray?

Richard259
2nd October 2009, 06:33 AM
It can be done. In the news recently, there was a chap who was still running a 1936 TV with a Freeview box so it must have been using some sort of modulator for the TV to interpret the picture.

The newspaper article didn't mention that.

As an aside, even the change from 405 lines to 625 lines was a bit of a revelation at the time, even in B/W as the picture was far less coarse. When ITV first started broadcasting in 625, in 1968 I think, they ran the 405 system in paralell and you could switch between the two and see the difference.

That older system was still running in the London area up to the early 80's and occasionally caused picture interference on the colour picture.

When they swiched it off, that part of the VHF band was used by CB radio enthusiasts.

Silent Bob
2nd October 2009, 08:16 AM
Its ironic isn't it? That as the quality of the technology has inproved, the exact opposite has happened the quality of the programmes! :(:confused::mad:

Derek Eaton
2nd October 2009, 11:47 AM
Its ironic isn't it? That as the quality of the technology has inproved, the exact opposite has happened the quality of the programmes! :(:confused::mad:

Loved this observation and agree with it.

TonyB
2nd October 2009, 12:32 PM
Its ironic isn't it? That as the quality of the technology has inproved, the exact opposite has happened the quality of the programmes!

Absolutely spot on observation there Silent Bob.

It seems to me that if you remove the 'soaps' then about half of the TV schedule would be blank. Which to me if I am honest would be a big improvement.

Picasso61
2nd October 2009, 03:30 PM
When ITV first started broadcasting in 625, in 1968 I think, they ran the 405 system in paralell and you could switch between the two and see the difference.November 1969 to be exact, Richard. ATV, Thames/London Weekend, Granada & Yorkshire were the first ITV regions to go colour on 625 lines - a far superior system to the old 405 lines network.
Re roose1982's comment - it would be most interesting to see say Fireball XL5 with the extra lines on the picture.:)

air terrainean
2nd October 2009, 06:03 PM
Just purely out of curiosity, i wonder what it would be like to watch one of the Supermarionation series on an old style british b/w tv set from the 1960's.

I've managed the next best thing - I have an old style TV cabinet, including the frame surround, into which I've put a second hand Sony CRT TV. Just turn down the colour, and Presto ! Retro TV viewing !

Richard259
3rd October 2009, 08:10 AM
November 1969 to be exact, Richard. ATV, Thames/London Weekend, Granada & Yorkshire were the first ITV regions to go colour on 625 lines - a far superior system to the old 405 lines network.
Re roose1982's comment - it would be most interesting to see say Fireball XL5 with the extra lines on the picture.:)

November '69 when they went colour yes, but they were testing in 625 a few months before that.

Picasso61
3rd October 2009, 01:09 PM
November '69 when they went colour yes, but they were testing in 625 a few months before that.Yes the ITA were indeed testing in colour prior to November Richard but you did say that they started broadcasting as you thought in 1968.
The 405 line system ran in parallel with 625 right up to its closure in January 1985.

Richard259
4th October 2009, 10:34 AM
Just my memory....:) Sorry about that!

Richard259
4th October 2009, 10:37 AM
I've managed the next best thing - I have an old style TV cabinet, including the frame surround, into which I've put a second hand Sony CRT TV. Just turn down the colour, and Presto ! Retro TV viewing !

Old BW sets, albeit 625 units from the 70's do turn up from time to time, especially at boot sales so it's worth keeping an eye out for them.

Picasso61
4th October 2009, 01:33 PM
Just my memory....:) Sorry about that!You're forgiven, Richard!:D

glo thorogood
5th October 2009, 09:19 PM
D'oh! 405 lines - so long ago, valves and all that.
Glo

Richard259
6th October 2009, 10:54 AM
And now 625 PAL is slowly being superseded by 1080 lines HD!

Picasso61
6th October 2009, 01:18 PM
And now 625 PAL is slowly being superseded by 1080 lines HD!That's progress for you, Richard.

Richard259
6th October 2009, 02:59 PM
Interestingly France had an 819 line B/W system in the 60s (sometimes referred to as 1000 line) for a short time. This system, although in theory of higher quality, wasn't suitable for a stable colour picture.

This was really experimental and they stuck with 625 lines and their almost unique SECAM colour system.

A cartoon depicting our decision to stick with 405 lines whilst the French, Dutch and Germans were using 625.

http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/VOLUME02/IMAGES/Lines_frames_and_frequencies03.JPG

And a quote from a TV history page:

In 1959-1960, some "second network" tests were made in 819 lines from Eiffel tower on adjacent channels to chF8a, but this gave so poor results that RTF decided to adopt 625 UHF transmissions. However because of receivers' already rather high price (due to 819 lines technology) it was decided to maintain similar features to 819 VHF system, that is to say positive video and AM sound.

The coming of SECAM colour, on 625 UHF exclusively, put an end to "high def." 819 lines scanning, most of renewed equipment on ORTF1 being 625 lines bw or SECAM, optically converted to 819 to be broadcast on VHF network. Digital conversion only occured in the mid-70s when new TF1 public company began broadcasting in 625 UHF with SECAM system.